Rudy Giuliani Tells Michael Eric Dyson That There Wouldn’t Need to Be So Many White Police Officers in Black Communities “If You Weren’t Killing Each Other 70-75% of the Time”

Rudy Giuliani Former Mayor of New York City

Rudy Giuliani
Former Mayor of New York City

By Elaine Magliaro

On Sunday, former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani of “a noun, a verb, and 9/11” fame appeared on Meet the Press. He got into a contentious discussion with Georgetown professor Michael Eric Dyson on the subject Ferguson, Missouri. After host Chuck Todd brought up the disproportionality of white police forces not reflecting the demographics of the communities they serve in several American cities, Giuliani said that he was “disappointed” that the focus was “on the majority of the police force being white, rather than violence between African-Americans.” He said, “But the fact is, I find it very disappointing that you’re not discussing the fact that 93 percent of blacks in America are killed by other blacks. We’re talking about the exception here.”

Dyson  responded, “First of all, most black people who commit crimes against other black people go to jail. Number two, they are not sworn by the police department as an agent of the state to uphold the law. So in both cases, that’s a false equivalency that the mayor has drawn, which has exacerbated tensions deeply embedded in American culture.” Dyson added, “Black people who kill black people go to jail. White people who are policemen who kill black people do not go to jail.” He continued, “If a jury can indict a ham sandwich, why is it taking so long?”

Giuliani replied, “It’s hardly insignificant, it is the reason for the heavy policy presence in the black community.” Dyson responded, “Not at all, not at all.”

Giuliani then asked, “What about the poor black child that was killed by another black child? Why aren’t you protesting that?… Why don’t you cut it down so that so many white police officers don’t have to be in black areas?”

Later in the heated debate, Giuliani said, “The white police officers wouldn’t be there if you weren’t killing each other 70-75% of the time.”

Then Dyson responded, “Look at this! This is the defensive mechanism of white supremacy in your mind, sir!”

Click here to view the Meet the Press discussion with Rudy Giuliani and Michael Eric Dyson.

Ta-Nehisi Coates responded to Giuliani’s comments on Meet the Press in an article for The Atlantic in which he wondered why no one is talking about American-on-American crime.


Yes. It’s almost as if killers tend to murder people who live near them. Moreover, it seems that people actually hold officers operating under the color of law to a different standard. This is an incredible set of insights, which taken together offer a revelation so profound, so far-reaching, that it must not be wasted on our shiftless minority populations. The Gospel of Rudy Giuliani must sally forth across the land and challenge a culture that accepts neighborly violence and differing standards of death.

For nearly 15 years, our politicians have told us that murder perpetrated by Islamic terrorists represented an existential threat to the country. From al-Qaeda to ISIS, we are told that radical Islam is a killer that will drive us all into the sea. In fact, however, the most prolific killer of Americans hides behind a cloak of sensitivity and political correctness. The time has now come for some tough talk: The American people have one of the highest murder rates in the industrialized world. Almost all of these people are killed by other Americans. War hustlers and Bin Laden pimps love to go around screaming, but 9/11! Three thousand people died on 9/11. Nearly 15,000 Americans were killed in 2012. Americans perpetrate roughly five 9/11s against other Americans every year. By the end of this week, more Americans will be killed by other Americans than were ever killed by ISIS.

Coates went on and posed a number of questions:

Why are our politicians ignoring this plague of American-on-American crime? Why are American leaders not protesting the cult of death that fills the graveyards of America? Who will bravely challenge the culture of failure that says that Americans should only be outraged when Muslims kill Americans?…

And I’d add one more question: Why do we ignore the problem and the statistics of white-on-white crime?


What Rudy Giuliani gets wrong about the deaths of young black men (Washington Post)

The Gospel of Rudy Giuliani: Why is no one talking about American-on-American crime? (The Atlantic)

Giuliani: ‘White police officers wouldn’t be there if you weren’t killing each other.’ (Washington Post)

Rudy Giuliani: Cops Exist to Stop Black People From Killing Each Other (Gawker)

Giuliani Won’t Back Down: The Danger To A Black Child ‘Is Another Black’ (VIDEO) (TPM)

Giuliani: ‘White Police Officers Won’t Be There’ If Blacks ‘Weren’t Killing Each Other’ (VIDEO) (TPM)

Giuliani and Dyson Argue Over Violence in Black Communities (NBC)

Giuliani: Black violence is reason for white cops in Ferguson (MSNBC)



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12 Responses to Rudy Giuliani Tells Michael Eric Dyson That There Wouldn’t Need to Be So Many White Police Officers in Black Communities “If You Weren’t Killing Each Other 70-75% of the Time”

  1. rafflawr says:

    Nice article. I just do not understand why, as a country, we haven’t done more to stem the violence in our cities. Especially from guns. We won’t even allow a discussion about reasonable gun restrictions that may, I repeat, may spare some lives. The NRA lobbies against the CDC from studying gun violence. So sad.

  2. Gun violence comes from people seeking power, guns are an easy, quick seemingly effective way to seize that power. What would happen if people, especially those whom feel the most most dis-enfranchised in our large community/society actually felt empowered and represented to enact change and voice? Violence is something we seek out of frustration and laziness. Guns are not evil nor inherently bad, they are a tool and would simply be another advantage of the elite if removed from the hands of the commoner.

  3. Carterbo says:

    “A noun, a verb, and 9/11.″ I believe a politician will never top that zinger.

  4. bigfatmike says:

    I read about this interview in MSM. I was hoping some one would pick up on it.

    I think the plain language of Giuliani’s remarks include two false statements. First he seems to suggest there is some great disparity between the percentages of ‘black on black’ crime and other ethnic group crime. There is not. The ratio of ‘black on black’ crime is about 93%. The ratio of ‘white on white’ crime is about 85%. In the overall scheme of things that is not a great difference.

    A more important fallacy is that Giuliani seems to suggest that responsibility for crime in black neighborhoods should be placed not just on the perpetrators but also on all ordinary, law abiding citizens who live in the neighborhoods: “The white police officers wouldn’t be there if you weren’t killing each other 70-75% of the time.”

    The ‘you’ in ‘if you weren’t killing each other’ seems to go beyond the ‘you’ who are perpetrators. Perhaps Giuliani intended to limit the meaning of ‘you’. Perhaps some reader can suggest a reasonable limitation on the scope of ‘you’. But I do not see it.

    Doesn’t it seem unfair to blame all the inhabitants of high crime neighborhoods for crime committed by a few real criminals?

    I think Giuliani’s statement is deeply unfair. And I think the claim that some how all are responsible takes our attention away from the real causes of crime and good approaches to reducing crime.

  5. buckaroo says:

    Why doesn’t anyone ever go to a busy emergency room in a large city & watch what is presented.
    I think most of your questions would be answered by talking to the nurses since many of them are minorities which would perhaps make for increase credibility of response. Then go to minority physicians. Check it out !!!!

  6. Elaine M. says:

    Rudy Giuliani Says White Cops Are Needed To Stop Black People From Shooting Each Other

    “White police officers won’t be there if you weren’t killing each other 70 percent of the time,” Giuliani added.

    “This is a defense mechanism of white supremacy at work in your mind, sir,” Dyson replied.

    ProPublica recently found that “young black men are 21 times as likely as their white peers to be killed by police,” according to data collected between 2010 and 2012.

    And this tension isn’t anything new. In 1967, a panel convened by President Lyndon Johnson after the race riots in Newark and Detroit characterized the relationship between police and minority communities as “abrasive.”

    “To pursue our present course will involve the continuing polarization of the American community and, ultimately, the destruction of basic democratic values,” the panel concluded.

    The racial disparity between police forces and communities at large remains significant. According to The New York Times, “[i]n hundreds of police departments across the country, the percentage of whites on the force is more than 30 percentage points higher than in the communities they serve, according to an analysis of a government survey of police departments.”

  7. Elaine M. says:

    By Charles P. Pierce on November 24, 2014

    Consider the way he’s been talking. He’s talking about black folks needing the strong hand of (largely white) police forces to keep them from killing each other. That’s the language of occupation. It’s the same way Southern sheriffs talked during the civil rights movement, the same way that the butchers of Tulsa and of Rosewood justified the destruction they wreaked, the same way the British talked about what their role was in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. And that is the way that Rudy Giuliani is talking about the relationship between the police and black citizens today. And, if you don’t think there’s an audience for that point of view in, say, the rural precincts of Iowa, wait and see what happens if Ferguson blows up. It will have the same effect on white people far from the events that the Watts, Detroit, and Newark riots of the 1960’s had. Someone will run for the Republican nomination for president as the “law ‘n order” candidate. Call me crazy, but I think Rudy Giuliani is already there.

  8. Elaine M. says:

    Rudy Giuliani’s racial nonsense: How he revealed a disturbing truth about America
    “America’s mayor” implies police swarm black communities in order to save lives. Here’s the problem

    Because the producers of “Meet the Press” seem to believe that the show’s recent troubles were entirely David Gregory’s fault — and not the fault of whoever is booking the same old, white conservative men, week after week after week — failed presidential candidate and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani was a guest this past weekend. And because Giuliani is the public figure most associated with “broken windows” — which anti-racism activists and civil libertarians have long criticized as unconstitutional — the consultant to war criminals tried to make everyone talk about black-on-black crime instead. It worked completely, which shouldn’t surprise anyone who knows anything about the United States…

    In fact, Giuliani was so confident that the national debate should avoid discussing police brutality and focus on what the deal is with black people instead, he joined Fox News on Monday morning to reiterate the point — and take it one step further. “The danger to a black child in America is not a white police officer,” Giuliani told Fox’s Steve Doocey, explaining why he was “very frustrated” with protesters in Ferguson, Missouri. “The danger to a black child,” he added, “is another black.” Before claiming “there is virtually no homicide in the white community,” Giuliani recommended protesters — or “these people,” as he called them — “straighten out” their own communities, rather than make a big deal about a white cop possibly gunning down an unarmed and surrendering African-American teenager in the streets.

  9. eniobob says:

    “Will the recent rioting in Ferguson, Missouri, be a tipping point in the struggle against racial injustice, or will it be a minor footnote in some future grad student’s thesis on Civil Unrest in the Early Twenty-First Century ?

    You probably have heard of the Kent State shootings: on May 4, 1970, the Ohio National Guard opened fire on student protesters at Kent State University. During those 13 seconds of gunfire, four students were killed and nine were wounded, one of whom was permanently paralyzed. The shock and outcry resulted in a nationwide strike of 4 million students that closed more than 450 campuses. Five days after the shooting, 100,000 protestors gathered in Washington, D.C. And the nation’s youth was energetically mobilized to end the Vietnam War, racism, sexism, and mindless faith in the political establishment.

    You probably haven’t heard of the Jackson State shootings.”

  10. eniobob says:

    “Secondly, we’ve got to get rid of two or three myths that still pervade our nation. One is the myth of time. I’m sure you’ve heard this notion. It is the notion that only time can solve the problem of racial injustice. And I’ve heard it from many sincere people. They’ve said to the negro and/to his allies in the white community you should slow up, you’re pushing things too fast, only time can solve the problem. And if you’ll just be nice and patient and continue to pray, in a hundred or two hundred years the problem will work itself out. There is an answer to that myth. It is the time is neutral. It can be used either constructively or destructively. And I’m sad to say to you tonight I’m absolutely convinced that the forces of ill will in our nation, the forces on the wrong side in our nation, the extreme righteous of our nation have often used time much more effectively than the forces of good will and it may well be that we may have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words of the bad people who will say bad things in a meeting like this or who will bomb a church in Birmingham, Alabama, but for the appalling silence and indifference of the good people who sit around and say wait on time. Somewhere we must come to see that human progress never rolls in on the wheels of inevitability, it comes through the tireless efforts and the persistent work of dedicated individuals who are willing to be co-workers with God and without this hard work time itself becomes an ally of the primitive forces of social stagnation. And so we must always help time and realize that the time is always right to do right.

  11. eniobob says:

    “Will the recent rioting in Ferguson, Missouri, be a tipping point in the struggle against racial injustice, or will it be a minor footnote in some future grad student’s thesis on Civil Unrest in the Early Twenty-First Century?”

  12. eniobob says:

    This event was even turned into a movie,nothing seemed to have mattered evidently seeing where we are today.

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